How young is too young...?

[elian]

I cannot advocate breaking the law but I'm glad that your experience was a positive one Realist. Like I said in my case I think it wasn't necessarily the sex, but all of the things he did to me to make me emotionally and mentally unbalanced beforehand...the unanswered questions I had in my mind AFTER - and of course the terrible longing for that type of intimacy again which I never had an opportunity to feel until l I was 19 or so..

Believe me when I was a teen I fantasized quite a lot - I wanted to be with other boys my age and some adult men I looked up to in the worst way, I wanted them to accept me and love me so badly but I was so very immature and none of those are the right reason to want to have sex.

I think the NZ law that was mentioned with a sliding scale although not perfect is probably a decent approach because I think it is perfectly natural for children of the SAME age to be curious about their bodies.

Unfortunately not everyone has the opportunity to dictate what their introduction to sex is going to be like, children may THINK they know what it's all about but it's doubtful they actually know, since the cycle of abuse tends to repeat I simply cannot advocate sexual contact under the age of consent. .like I said let the children mature and develop their character first.

As far as olden times, remember it was often considered "good" if someone lived to the ripe old age of @ 42 right?

[ALMOE]

Under 18? too young.

[roy m cox]

i was reaped at 7yrs. old and we will leave it at that ,

i wont date any one under the age of 20

[darkeyes]

Under 18? too young.

Until 1929 in Scotland girls could marry at the age of 12 and boys at 14... it didnt happen often but a lot of rumpy did between the young of those ages themselves and of those ages and older people.

One such instance of illicit rumpy between a boy of 15 and a girl of 14 led to the conception of my fathers mother.. they married in 1924 and lived happily together until the death of my great gran in 1981. My fathers father was conceived after marriage in 1921... my great grandfather was 19 and great grandmother 16. Quite legally in todays UK and Scottish terms and they too lived loved and struggled together happily until my great grandad's death in 1972. 18 too young? For some... for others not so.. even for some who we would consider too young not so. Human beings are all different and grow and mature at different rates which is what æonpax, I and some others have been saying.

What is so magical about an age that we are not fit for something one day and upon our birthday we suddenly become ready? The law does not in its present form cater for differing maturity ages.. in each of our countries it is arbitrary because it has to be in the interests of the young who are less mature both physically and mentally. Arbitrary law is unfair in that it discriminates against a group of people. What for instance is so right that we cannot vote at 17 yet we can from the day we become 18? That we assume all the rights and responsibilities of being an adult at 18 and are denied them the day prior to reaching that age? Arbitrary law is a best guess..it is all it can be.. and being a best guess it screws with people it really shouldnt..

Regarding the age of consent, the law in Scotland, Duckie, and I believe south of the border acts much as it does in New Zealand.. it does this because while it is unfair, it struggles to be reasonable when it comes to sex between peer groups and not clamp down too hard on those young people who are around and below the age of consent..

[elian]

Why? Because like you said Fran there needs to be a baseline "lowest common denominator" for people who can't. don't or won't think. So everyone knows in this land there is ONE law and if you break it you break it.

I will tell you a sad tale though about one of my friends who graduated from high school around the same time as me - he married an emancipated minor who was 16-17, I think he was 18 - they both wanted to get away because she grew up in a very emotionally abusive, controlling home. For whatever reason private videos were made of their intimate moments that in hindsight probably should not have been made - actually they should NOT have even been married but they both thought they knew better than everyone else.

Later on after a custody dispute these videos were brought to light and the DA went after him and prosecuted him for having sex with a minor. Mind you, she was emancipated, they were married and the sex in the alleged incidents was consensual. The judge had actually awarded custody of the child to HIM (not the norm in the conservative county where I grew up) if that tells you anything about the maturity of the wife.

The DA had not only brought that charge but 19 other charges, I guess hoping to intimidate him and see which ones would "stick". He was so afraid of losing his son, which he thought was the only thing worth living for at that point that he pled guilty to a reduced charge because they told him he would at least be able to see his son. He did time in jail because of it.

In retrospect he should have fought the case to defend his record, now he is a registered sex offender under Megan's Law (he swears the judge said not to put him on a registry as part of the judgement). He STILL has custody of his son but he carries the stigma of "registered sex offender" around with him wherever he goes, people put up posters in the neighborhood..etc.

I will say that there are definitely sexual predators out there that we need to look for and I am glad there is legislation to protect children.

There are also some people who have been abused by the criminal justice system as well. He's even had police officers tell him that personally they thought the outcome was wrong, but police officers only enforce the law, they don't create it. He suffers from serious bouts of depression. He WAS studying to be in the medical profession, since he can no longer get licensed he can't work - he cannot afford to hire an attorney to help get a pardon or clear his record in any way.

[lizard-lix]

This one is tricky...

I started at 11, with an equally horny male friend, we did not start with girls until several years later.

Given that, I still think 18 is a good legal age, too many young folks I know do not seem mature enough to handle sex... Let them have time to grow up.

OTOH in some euro countries the age is 16.. but then again their culture there is somewhat less confused/prurient/falsely prudish than the US is.

But here is a flip side story. A gay buddy liked younger guys (he was early 30's), so he wen to the local college campus to look for dates. He picked up a guy who claimed to be 18 (he did not ask to see ID), and they spent some time together.

A short time later, the young man got busted for drugs and when offered an out by the police, he ratted out my buddy.

So the kid got off and my buddy is now a registered sex offender and can no longer practice law.. His life is essentially ruined, for having consensual sex with a minor (that was never questioned in the proceedings).

Was this right? NO! Is it right that people sexually molest kids? NO!

When I was 17, I was sleeping with a 15 YO girl. I was not her first and she was really the aggressor in the relationship. Then I turned 18, she was just turning 16. There for dumb luck go I, her dad could have had me locked up, luckily he didn't.

It is such a difficult question..

In the absence of a better solution, don't cross the 18 line, in the US... It is certainly NOT perfect, but it is reasonable.

[æonpax]

Here's something to consider,

A young girl in Mexico gave birth via c-section almost two months early a few weeks after being admitted to the hospital for life threatening pregnancy complications. She is not quite 11 years old. ~ http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/articl...tions?mid=5283 ~

That is way too young.

[AsianDream]

The “Age of consent” topic interests me because I started at the age of 14 – which was perfectly legal in the jurisdiction in which this took place.

My first boyfriend was considerably older than me – but if anything I first seduced him – also I have never regretted the relationship since nor ever felt that this was in any way inappropriate.

I do think that sexual abuse of children is totally wrong – but think that the age of consent should be set at a realistic level. This is 14 in China and India (so about half the world) and I personally feel that they have got this about right. Rather than the Western idea of 18 or 21 as an age of consent.

Some people have said to me since that I am “over sexualized” because I became sexually active at an early age – but I don’t agree. My take on this is that I have had greater sexual experience than most of my age and that this can only be a positive thing..

I think that “age of consent” laws should reflect when people become sexually active – rather than some abstract concept of when they are “fully mature adults” – which is probably at around age 25

[darkeyes]

I think that “age of consent” laws should reflect when people become sexually active – rather than some abstract concept of when they are “fully mature adults” – which is probably at around age 25

This sweetie, is patent nonsense and takes no account of why people become sexually active.. the preyed upon, or the young who begin to fuck with their peers because they think they should are nowhere in your "consent" scenario.. western age of consent law is specific because of human complexity which is in itself abstract and because we cannot determine adequately criteria for maturity on an individual basis.. what u suggest invites the predator to do his worst and also irresponsible and ignorant sex among the young born of lack of maturity and naivity.. because we can physically shag, and can either conceive or cause conception does not mean we are in any way ready to do so...it just isnt as simple as that..

Complete physical maturity is not necessary in my opinion, but in both that and mental maturity a young person should have reached a level where participation in sexual activity is of their well educated and informed choice, and they are of sufficient maturity to deal with it properly thus minimising as far as they can dangers to health through disease or pregnancy and maximising their ability to resist the more predatory among us.. these things we cannot gauge properly because we all grow and develop at varying rates both mentally and physically.... and so we have a specific age at which, in a child's interest they can quite legally, if not entirely safely, but as safe as they can be through maturity and education, embark on the amazing journey a sex life can be..

[æonpax]

About 6 years ago (when I was still going to college) I did a paper on AOC laws, on the format that such laws were unjust. It took me 2 months (the allotted time) to complete it. I had to use facts and a strong logical argument.

I got a good grade on the paper but was forewarned that as good as it was, outside the academic environment, it could cause me problems...and they were right.

I will say, the culture of a community or society, plays a major part in how fast a child matures, emotionally and intellectually. Moreover, in light of the Penn State incident, more people are coming out and saying stuff like this;

Right Wing Media: "Predatory Homosexual Behavior" Caused Penn State Scandal

I might argue that the youth of America is being kept back from attaining their natural state of maturity for archaic and selfish reasons, but now, is not the time.

[love1234]

The “Age of consent” topic interests me because I started at the age of 14 – which was perfectly legal in the jurisdiction in which this took place.

My first boyfriend was considerably older than me – but if anything I first seduced him – also I have never regretted the relationship since nor ever felt that this was in any way inappropriate.

I do think that sexual abuse of children is totally wrong – but think that the age of consent should be set at a realistic level. This is 14 in China and India (so about half the world) and I personally feel that they have got this about right. Rather than the Western idea of 18 or 21 as an age of consent.

Some people have said to me since that I am “over sexualized” because I became sexually active at an early age – but I don’t agree. My take on this is that I have had greater sexual experience than most of my age and that this can only be a positive thing..

I think that “age of consent” laws should reflect when people become sexually active – rather than some abstract concept of when they are “fully mature adults” – which is probably at around age 25

Lots (all?) of the west is nuts run by control freaks and the people with low IQs think they are free.

Can't drink a beer here but they will send you off to get your brains blown out for the banker, gangsters and their wall streets.

[elian]

I was watching a History Channel special on the rise of the Nazi party, one item of note was the indoctrination received by the youth. The boys did physical drills and learned to beat each other up with fists. The girls worked at farms and learned that it was their duty to produce offspring. As many as 900 16 year old girls returned from one of these camps pregnant..when one mother learned about it and tried to go to the camp in protest her own daughter told her to shut up and go home - the daughter was "doing her duty" and she would personally report her own mother to the Gestapo if the mother tried to interfere.

This of course got me curious about sexuality in those times because I had heard about state run brothels specifically used to create more children. Turns out that is a little more dramatic then what it actually was but there were often times former rest homes or confiscated Jewish owned houses that were turned into orphanages for unwed mothers or unwanted children.. Of course the state did not have a taboo about mothers having children out of wedlock because the more young people in the direct care of the state the better..members of the army witnessed christening of these children.

The "female sexuality" material I was able to find on the net talked about the demoralization and denigration of female concentration camp prisoners..not very pleasant in any respect.

The 'male sexuality" material I was able to find focused on the treatment of homosexuals, including an essay talking about the idea that a great number of Nazi's in power had homosexual tendencies, lots of homoerotic symbolism they used, etc. ..and that idea that supposedly there was an internal conflict between "butch" and "femme" homosexuals..

I had to deprogram myself a bit because it wasn't much of a stretch to see the author starting to paint a picture that equated Nazism equally with pederasty and homosexual tendencies.

He seemed to imply that the majority of Nazi's were homosexual, which could not have been true...and I *KNOW* that not all "homosexuals" are "evil" in the way he insinuates without really saying it..

The whole learning experience left me with the impression that Hitler was a very manipulative, evil man. I always knew he was evil but this kind of showed a few more details. Also all of the strange things people used to take for granted to justify their theories of supremacy, etc. I DO believe that the occult exists but I don't abuse that belief the way these people did..terrible - anyone who spoke out was tortured or murdered..period.

There are a lot of people that seem to be calling for us to go back to "simpler" days - I for one am glad that we are wiser than that now. I love to believe in the positive potential of people, but we must also never forget that the human spirit is capable of vicious things as well.

It saddens me to think that when people are grasping for answers to the question "Why?" their old ignorant prejudices appear under trauma. "It MUST be the homosexual.." <sigh>

There are people who are homosexual who just can't wait for Mr Sandusky to "horse around in the showers" (as he politely put it) while in prison.. I'm usually not vindictive but if you don't want to insult your character by calling it RAPE, if that is what really happened then maybe it's time to learn some truth.

[love1234]

All you have to do is look at the gop (gay old perverts) and see the evil. Many homosexuals are evil, mean, back stabbers. They love power over people and controlling them. Just look into "The Franklin Cover Up".

[Long Duck Dong]

All you have to do is look at the gop (gay old perverts) and see the evil. Many homosexuals are evil, mean, back stabbers. They love power over people and controlling them. Just look into "The Franklin Cover Up".

I take serious offense to that, as most of the homosexual gentlemen I know, are not evil, mean, backstabbers.....they are decent, caring, loving people that are gay and like every other sexuality there is the bad apples in the barrel.....

its just a shame they have to share the world with people like you.....

[æonpax]

All you have to do is look at the gop (gay old perverts) and see the evil. Many homosexuals are evil, mean, back stabbers. They love power over people and controlling them. Just look into "The Franklin Cover Up".

Your opinion seems very tainted and your understanding of the human dynamics, appears flawed.

Police and law enforcement do not keep statistics on the sexual orientation or political ideology of offenders but as 80% of all child sexual assault cases involve an adult family member and some adult known to the child in a position of authority ( http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/ind...410&Itemid=336 ) it can be safely inferred that the perpetrators are heterosexual.

You might also check into a group called Log Cabin Republicans whom are Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual ...and GOP.
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[elian]

Oh love, it seems terribly unfair to lump a whole group of people into a category like that. If you believe as I do, that some people are born with a predisposition to be attracted to those of their own gender, that would be like saying "All women are mean spirited," Number one, it's not true, and number two it lumps a bunch of people together who potentially had no control over a characteristic they were born with. We who like same gender just have it a little easier because we can conceal ourselves better than someone who has the so called "wrong" genitals or skin color. Wrong of course meaning "not in the privileged majority".

I've always known I was a bit different than other boys but the real trigger that brought all of that out was the addition of environment and experience. If no one had screwed with my mind when I was younger I may have been a completely different person than who I am today.

The conservative party does protect something, but it's not homosexuality - it's wealth. I'm not even sure that all of the believers completely understand the link between what they call "fiscal responsibility" and preserving wealth but that is essentially what their polices have promoted over the years, at least for PORTIONS of our US society. Just like ANY political party they bend the framing of their words to suit their own agenda.

The definition of fiscal responsibility, to these people seems to be: "Tax hikes and debt are GOOD for stimulating the economy when we want to have a war we know damn well nobody but China can pay for (eight years later) ..now that we aren't in power anymore and we need something to get voted back in office; let's fight tooth and nail against debt and raising taxes because our opponent party wants to do it."

We don't need their motivation for so called "fiscal responsibility", as much as we need plain good common sense.

Poorly written tax code and fiscal law encouraged people with wealth to find "creative" ways of protecting and enhancing that wealth. (Such as earning massive commissions at a reduced tax rate and using the real estate market like an unregulated stock market). Poorly written social programs encouraged people who maybe couldn't REALLY afford that $750,000 house to go ahead and get into massive debt way over their heads.. The free market bank was more than happy to earn a commission on an "Interest Only" loan, "Look you can afford this $750,000 house, the payments are only $500/mo." Sooner or later the whole thing comes tumbling down..

Free trade agreements are good for "stimulating the economy" - I mean we might as well get it over with and let all of the free labor markets become unionized and have environmental regulation so that there's finally no where left to produce the "inexpensive" goods we all demand at the expense of the land and other people's health.

Let's not forget about the storm brewing over how (or how not) to pay for baby boomer pensions and health care.. Money that would have potentially been there if the corporations and government hadn't spent all of it up already thinking that "the day when we need that money" will be some day off in the distant future.

All I can say is, thanks guys - thanks a lot for managing the economy so well.

<shakes head .. mumbles something about forgiveness, tolerance and love>

[a2smith09]

As a previous reply says "Tricky Subject" and as the Penn State case and several other posters have emphatically alluded predatory sexual exploitation by an adult on a child is so wrong and evil in so many ways. So as far as that goes that behavior is totally unacceptable. As far as the AOC goes now that is a totally different issue and I don't think one age fits all. In my State the AOC is 16 for 18 and older and I think 13 if you are within 2 years of age of one another.

Now I'm originally from the rural south. My grandmother was married when she was 14 and my aunt born when she was 15. I've had several great aunts married when they were between 12 and 15. My great grandmother married my great grandfather when she was 12. He was 16. My mom was barely 18 when she married my dad and two of my aunts were 16 and another 15 when they got married. So this AOC at 18 is a very recent phenomonem and I think there ought to be a lot more flexibility there.

As far as I go, how young is too young within your peer group? Good question I was five or six when I started playing doctor like many of you with the neighborhood kids. Started off with you show me yours and I'll show you mine and progressed from there. We played doctor until the 5th grade and along the way we did lots of rubbing, kissing, touching, licking, and insertions. There were 3 guys and eight girls in the group and we took turns with one another. We did it because it was fun and felt real good. I personnally think that that was perfectly natural and acceptable behavior and I know my oldest daughter and her friends started when they were 5.

As far as sex for sex when I knew what it was started when we were 14. It was one of my best friends and we started having sex that summer and we still do today. Added a couple of other friends to the mix and my first sex with a girl happened when I was 15. I started having sex with a much older man that year too. He was the father of one of my girlfriends. I don't consider myself to be taken advantage of or exploited. I was willing, ready, and interested in learning more and he was a capable and excellent teacher. We had a wonderful relationship that I think extremely fondly upon still. I'd do it again and maybe start a bit younger.

[mollysaw]

I am not too sure about what age is ok for male to male sex but I was 12 years old when a older man taught me the ways of male sex and I love it. I remember him sucking me lots of times and we talked about me cuming and he showed me what he ment and the first time I watched him cum it turned me on so much I almost did cum watching. He let me play in his cum to show me it was ok to touch . I jerked off many times with no cum until one day he was sucking me and I cum and he swoled it and said it was good.
Then one day I was laying with my head on his belly and jerking him off when I just wanted to have his cock in my mouth and leaned over his cock and took it in my mouth and loved it. It did't take long for him to blow his load in my mouth and I swalowed it and loved the feel of it and taste of it and have swallowed every time a sucked a cock. So was it bad or good that I learned from a older man. I was ok with then and still an ok with it

[momandson30]

My first time i was also 9 years old.. The boy was 13 years old. He took me to his tree house, and pulled my dick out.. I felt embarrased and mad, he pulled my pants off.. he said ill get my pants back when i finish with your dick.. he grabbed my dick and started giving me oral it felt good, he made me dry cum... When he was done he gave me my pants back. its funny we became close friends.

[bikurinpa]

Here's something to consider,



That is way too young.

Who ever got her pregnant should sit in prison!