The Michael Vick dogfighting case. [Archive]

MarieDelta

Jul 26, 2007, 10:58 AM

As some of you know, I am a big animal lover. I have always hated seeing animals hurt. IMO Dog fighting is the worst, not only do you hurt animals which are inocent of wrongdoing, but you also train them to be dangerous killers.

He needs to be put in with the pedophiles, rapists, and other such criminals.

Unfortunately when he gets put in jail it will probably only strengthen his conviction that he was right as he will be in with others that feel similar to what he does.

I think he will get some time, how much under the current administration? Your guess is as good as mine.

Crap, I just read the rest of the article

Sometimes, dogs weren't fed to "make it more hungry for the other dog."

Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents.

This F@cker deserves to be hung!

How much suffering will this guy have to endure? I hope he comes back as a dog in some under developed country.

Ugh!

Michael623

Jul 26, 2007, 11:37 AM

captslaprock

Jul 26, 2007, 11:50 AM

MICHAEL I AGREE WITH THE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY & I KNOW PEOPLE WITH MONEY BUY HOMES FOR THEIR RELATIVES

BUT FOR HIM TO SAY HE NEVER KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON UP THERE & WAS NEVER INVOLVED WAS A MISTAKE & A LIE....HE WAS ALREADY SHOWN TO BE THERE MANY TIMES

LET HIS GUILT BE DETERMINED BUT AFTER IT IS OR HE PLEADS OUT
BURN HIS ASS

MarieDelta

Jul 26, 2007, 11:53 AM

First of all let me say that I love animals. I have a black lab and 2 cats. Both cats were strays we took in. My wife and I give money to all kinds of animal rights organizations.

What bothers me is that the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty is being ignored by most people now days. Now that is scary. More so than Michael VIck. Corporal punishment has never worked. It is the barbaric "an eye for and eye" philosophy. GAWD, it drives me nuts.

So please, think about the basic principle of a persons presumed innocence first.

Namaste,
Michael

That is a really good point.

I supose sometimes I get a little too emotional about these issues.

It is what the media wants, the more controversy the more papers (and therefore ads) they sell.

Thank you for your post Micheal, you brought me back to reality.

12voltman59

Jul 26, 2007, 1:13 PM

I am glad to see that Vick is going to be prosecuted---if found guilty---with our system of justice-he does have the presumption of innocense until proven "guilty beyond all reasonable doubt"--I just hope that his celebrity status does not hinder justice taking its due course---that does so often seem to be the case---

The Vick case is yet another stain on professional sports going on at the moment--doping accusations against many of the riders in the Tour de France; Vick's case and other miscreants in the NFL, a bad ref with ties to the mob and related gambling problems in the NBA , continuing rumors of rampant steroid use in Major League Baseball--especially among those who lead the homerun derby race, even hints that some pro-golfers are "juicing up" too---

It is all a bit depressing---I guess the quest for glory and big bucks trumps all--such a sad state of affairs!!!!

As far as Vick is concerned--I hope that if he is convicted on all charges--he gets the maximum punishment at most and at least--his NFL days are done---

Sort of related---I hope they hang over the threat of major felony prison time over the head of Lindsay Lohan so she "gets her shit together" --by entering a court sanctioned drug rehab program---one that is not cushy-there are curfews--no outside contact and such--like the ones I had my non-celebrity "clients" enrolled in---no more pseudo treatment programs like that one "Promises" seems to be from what I have read in media reports on it---

Lindsay now faces some major felony charges--the cocaine possession while on sanction in another case and bringing in controlled substances in a correctional facility--she faces a potentiial of several years prison time...in a California Department of Corrections facility--that should curdle her blood!!!

She may not do that time but at least the prosecutors have a heavy hammer to wield to get that girl to figure out--"I am in deep shit here!"

Excuse me for going off topic and ranting about Lindsay---

biwords

Jul 26, 2007, 2:37 PM

Corporal punishment has never worked. It is the barbaric "an eye for and eye" philosophy. GAWD, it drives me nuts.

What basis do you have for saying it's never worked, Michael? It sure kept discipline in the Royal Navy. If 'worked' means 'deterred everyone from ever committing a crime, anywhere' then, yes, it never worked, and neither did anything else. But that's not a realistic standard. If 'worked' means 'was an appropriate and just punishment for really evil acts', then it certainly did work. For my part, I don't think it's barbaric to punish; justice often requires it, and justice is the ideal of civilized people. And to call virtually everyone who existed before the 1960's a 'barbarian' is, frankly, not very convincing. I appreciate that your instincts are compassionate and humane. But compassion towards the guilty can amount to contempt for the innocent. "When I find myself pitying a criminal about to be hanged," said a wise Englishman, "I remind myself that there is a pity likewise due to the country".

Michael623

Jul 26, 2007, 5:45 PM

What basis do you have for saying it's never worked, Michael? It sure kept discipline in the Royal Navy. If 'worked' means 'deterred everyone from ever committing a crime, anywhere' then, yes, it never worked, and neither did anything else. But that's not a realistic standard. If 'worked' means 'was an appropriate and just punishment for really evil acts', then it certainly did work. For my part, I don't think it's barbaric to punish; justice often requires it, and justice is the ideal of civilized people. And to call virtually everyone who existed before the 1960's a 'barbarian' is, frankly, not very convincing. I appreciate that your instincts are compassionate and humane. But compassion towards the guilty can amount to contempt for the innocent. "When I find myself pitying a criminal about to be hanged," said a wise Englishman, "I remind myself that there is a pity likewise due to the country".

I think we would fair much better to respect the divinity in all. I take it then if your children don't do things as you wish then you beat them into your way of thinking. Look at where we are as a human race biwodrs and all you have said has little merit. Your justice and your "wise" men certainly haven't made a difference other than to spout off.

FalconAngel

Jul 26, 2007, 6:34 PM

We both love animals, but we are realistic about things; For instance we think that those idiots from PETA are way over the top and totally unrealistic.
We have no problem with the wearing of fur, we both own leather jackets (leather is the best, least expensive protection on a motorcycle), but abusing an animal, any animal, for sport is right up there with the Holocost as far as we are concerned.
If Vick is, in fact, guilty (and everything so far points in that direction), then we hope that he gets everything he deserves for it.

Doggie_Wood

Jul 26, 2007, 7:16 PM

I think we would fair much better to respect the divinity in all. I take it then if your children don't do things as you wish then you beat them into your way of thinking. Look at where we are as a human race biwodrs and all you have said has little merit. Your justice and your "wise" men certainly haven't made a difference other than to spout off.

Tisk Tisk Tisk - Now Michael, I respect devinity in all but, "spare the rod and spoil the child" - there is a difference between beeting a child and providing guidance when using corporal punishment.
When my dad, God rest his soul, whooped me with the belt, I knew what the whoopin was for. And generally didn't do what I did to get the whoopin anymore. At least not the exact same thing. LOL. - But when he was lenient on me and just grounded me to my room or not going outside to play, all that did was make me spise him and usually ended up doing something worse.
I grew up receiving corporal punishment when it was deserved and all in all, I think I turned out OK. :2cents:

:doggie:

OH!! I almost fergot :tongue: - If Michael Vick is found guilty, whoop his mutha-fukin ass, connect a battery boost/charger to his nuts, drench him with water and turn the charger on full. I classify animal abuse proponents in the same league as pedophiles. :soapbox: Ain't got no use for em except as fish bait! :2cents:

:doggie:

Huey_durden

Jul 26, 2007, 8:10 PM

As much as I hate animal abuse I have to say I haven't heard enough evidence. It's easy to defame a person but it's hard to get their good name back.

Michael623

Jul 26, 2007, 8:19 PM

I'll never in my life feel that inflicting pain is the answer. NEVER. I better shut up now, while I am ahead.

namaste

mistymockingbird

Jul 26, 2007, 8:56 PM

I'm a huge football fan. Quite honestly I've always thought Michael Vick was kind of a thug and given more hype than he deserved. Regardless of the outcome of his trial I'm pleased to see that the NFL and the Atlanta Falcons are poised to take action in the interest of saving the sport from further tarnish. In addition to being told not to report to training camp, the Falcons have said that they feel it is best that Vick not play at all until the conclusion of the trial so that his attention is not divided. Political speak for telling Vick his days as a Falcon are done, despite the hit they'll take on their salary cap.

I'm willing to work under the assumption of presumed innocence, but I think that there are far too many sports figures these days who abuse their celebrity and in doing so bring down the sport as a whole. As a sports fan, that saddens me. I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

fishfry29

Jul 26, 2007, 9:07 PM

MarieDelta

Jul 26, 2007, 9:57 PM

:eek: Ppl have been going to cockfights, bullfights, snake/ mongoose fights, dogfights and whatever for thousands of years. You goody goodies wont hesitate to eat a Big Mac or think its wonderful that Wal of China Mart is bulldozing 50 acres of animal habitat so you can buy your designer jeans made by some 11 year old kid in Korea, yet snivvle about animals doing what instinct has told them to do since forever....... Jesus H Christ, we have a corporate owned president that has gotten over 3500 Americans killed in a war to keep Exxon fluid, the worse health care system in the so called 'free' world, illegals sucking our system dry because employers wont pay American citizins a working wage, and I see a page of prople bitching because some dogs fight ...... Get fucking real, the newspaper people love dingbats like you bleeding hearts. :2cents:

I agree that we have big problems.

This thread is ,however about the current situation with Vicks, therefore yeah I'll give my opinion.

Dogs fight in nature , true. Does that mean that we just allow whatever is natural to happen? No, and I'll tell you why. We as a society have decided that mistreatment of animals is not what we do.

Why bring more misery and pain into this world?

These dogs were abused, beaten and cruelly killed. What's so great about that?

These dogs were trained to be killers. What happens when a child wanders into their pen?

We as humans are supposed to be above this stuff. We're supposed to be "the superior specis". What is so great about killing an inocent animal, without reason?

AdamKadmon43

Jul 26, 2007, 11:38 PM

Football, like many other sports, has always seemed to me to be a rather unpleasant, vicious, violent and mean sort of endeavor....

So why is it any great surprise that it is populated with unpleasant, vicious, violent and mean sorts of people ????

And I also really do not want to hear from people about cruelity to animals when they persist in unnecessarily killing them just to eat them.

Adam

Long Duck Dong

Jul 27, 2007, 12:07 AM

we don't know the full details about the person and their action yet we are quick to judge them

heterosexuals don't know the full details about us and our actions, they are quick to judge us

ME, i would perfer to know all the facts before I pass any judgement

TaylorMade

Jul 27, 2007, 8:24 AM

jamiehue

Jul 27, 2007, 6:29 PM

video shows the perp and his "team" driving away in a white ford suv...oh god not again.

CStunna

Jul 27, 2007, 6:55 PM

Whats more worse than the allegations is the fact people are convicting him before knowing facts..an indictment, I mind you is a one-sided argument with stories gicen my cooperating witnesses seeking lighter sentences for their own crime. SO AGAIN, before I go saying someone is this or that and passing judgement, i must know all facts! Seem to me animals, dogs in particular are gaining more rights than humans anyway! BTW..in more important news!!!, in tenn, two siberian huskies killed an 11 yr old boy in his crib yesterday. Dogs never displayed any violent tendencies. hmmmm

Yellow Dog

Jul 27, 2007, 8:46 PM

Re: Michael Vick

We know about opinions right? That everyone has one. Have any of you bothered to read the indictment? It is very explicit and involved multitudes of documented evidence. The Federal government does not pursue cases unless they are sure they will win. They have a 95 percent conviction rate.

Therefore I think they are going after Vick intensely. I don't think his so called celebrity means anything since he is the object of their interest. I think the dog fighting was the real reason they went to his property; not the search for drugs. I don't think they pursued the dog fighting as an afterthought.

I want to address some comments specifically. First, I don't think Vick's celebrity will get him off. I think his celebrity was the reason they went for him. They want a high profile case ... and I think they want to clean up the NFL a bit.

Someone said in Bush's government. Let us not forget that Bush signed the last bill that made dog fighting so egregious. Vick will get off lighter on some of the charges because some of his activities occurred before Bush signing this anti dog fighting bill. (I am a democrat so don't come after me as a Bush supporter.)

In reference to PETA. Yes they are a celebrity focused group and go for the publicity but in this case it is a good thing. In actuality they are riding on the coat tails of HSUS in heading the charge against Vick. It was a HSUS investigator who helped in the investigation. Peta just got in on the end of it because they like to be associated with high profile causes.

Yes, people eat meat and wear leather, fur etc. However, it is the purpose of the animal right's activist to address all offenses -- but you have to start somewhere. First the cock fighting, then dog fighting, then fois gras, then farming -- and from there we introduce the idea to people of the other cruelties that are just as indecent, hurtful and indeed the essence of immorality. Not only is "meat consumption" cruel it is also very responsible for global warming. I will explain later if someone wants to know.

I dodn't like the idea that making dogs mean is bad because it could hurt children. I think this whole "hurt the children" is an inflated idea that is used as an excuse of some kind for just doing the right thing.

I don't want this asshole on the same planet as me. I don't want him near my dogs and I don't want him near me. His cruelty goes far beyond wrong into something very pathological. I do not think the public reaction to Vick in Richmond at the court house was silly or over the top. I was disappointed that any of his supporters had the nerve to show up. What he did is so egregious he will be lucky to get off without someone killing him. My only impression of his supporters is that they are very ignorant and don't read much.

scubaman

Jul 27, 2007, 9:29 PM

I agree with Yellow Dog. The indictment is very specific in the writing of the document. They have CW as well. If the feds don't think they can win then they won't seek and indictment. THey are considerating additional charges as well as additional evidince in uncovered.

Having been in the dog business in the area where his home was located, and now living in a rual area, dog fighting is more popular than one would think. I am against dog fighting to say the least. If the alligations are found to be true and correct, this behavior in not one of a reasonal and prudent person. Personally, I feel an eye or an eye, would be the proper punishment. Make a list of the way he/they killed the dogs, put them in a hat and each one picks their own punishment.

As far as his football career goes; from what is being said in local papers here, and what has been put on on the NFL Network, and from what I have read, I don't think it looks good for the home team. I honestly feel the Falcons will end up sucking up his salary cap and cut him. As far as another team? That remains to be seen, depends on how the rookie at Oakland does his first year as Vick might be a fit with the Raiders. Who knows will have to wait till early Dec when his trial is over.

Yellow Dog

Jul 28, 2007, 4:41 AM

Scubaman, thanks. My first reaction that I sent to the NFL was something like "put him on a leash, let him fight for his life, beat him, wet him down and stick an electrical probe up his ass -- electrocute him them slam him to the ground and wait for him to die." With e-mails like that no wonder Roger Goodell look pale and shaken at his news conference. Incidentally, I liked the looks of Goodell. He looked like "oh god, what more are these stupid fucks up to. He is a monster." Anyway Goodell looked like a decent guy.

I think the Falcons and the NFL received over 500,000 e-mails. Then Vick
appears at the courthouse -- arroagant and out of it. I had thought about going there until PETA annnounced it was going. All animal rights people get put under the PETA umbrella and it is just so inaccurate. TV mongers like to generalize. In fact there are many animal rights individuals who try to live as preached and give money to the right people to go to Washington and be vocal in other areas.

Anyway, I personally think Vick's career is over. Even if he gets off too lightly it would be pretty hard to appear in a stadium where people booed you and really viscerally hated you.

The odd not funny thing is that I pictured Vick sitting in one of his mansions after this action took legal proportions just recently -- in his teenie mean mind thinking -- well, huh, what did I do? That prick if he even has one (oh wait-- yeah -- it's diseased apparently so it must be there) is so beyond comprehension of humanity. He lives in his own little gansta land where he can do anything.

The thing that gets me is really thinking about what happened. If you think about it and that is painful really -- what kind of delusional psycho :( path is he?

Then of course the inevitabe "race" issue enters the picture. If we held people to a single standard in this country we wouldn't have so many race issues. I do mean a s i n g l e standard -- with education, jobs, language and behavior. But that's another thought beyond the scope of this incident. Race has nothing to do with what he did unless you want to say all black people have no decency, morality, goodness, kindness. Nobody wants to go there. But Vick has put an evil face of his own people and it just isn't pretty.

scubaman

Jul 28, 2007, 6:33 AM

Yellow Dog, you bring up a good point, the smuggness he show walking into court. I honestly feels he thinks he will be able to sway a jury because of his football stardom in Virginia and the NFL. However, I think so many people are outraged at this don't think that will happen. I will be interested in seeing how long it takes to sit a jury. This is going to be an interesting late Nov and Dec. Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas Vick and co-defendants!

biwords

Jul 28, 2007, 7:46 AM

I think we would fair much better to respect the divinity in all. I take it then if your children don't do things as you wish then you beat them into your way of thinking. Look at where we are as a human race biwodrs and all you have said has little merit. Your justice and your "wise" men certainly haven't made a difference other than to spout off.

I don't have any children, but if I did I assure you I wouldn't beat them. But then, I distinguish between a kid who won't clean up his room and, say, someone who abducts, rapes and dismembers a child. In the second case, my first consideration is not ensuring that the perp remains physically comfortable. I 'respect the divinity' in the perp by treating him, not as an animal or an infant, but as a responsible moral agent, which includes accountability for his crimes. If he knows that the punishment for a crime includes flogging, and then commits it anyway, why should the punishment be withheld? Because the worst imaginable thing in the universe is that such a criminal might suffer pain? I'm not convinced, Michael, much as I respect your humanitarian instincts. And while I don't actually believe in 'an eye for an eye' -- not proposing that my hypothetical criminal be raped and dismembered -- I do think that some effort should be made to fit the punishment to the crime. Three squares a day, plus medical care and access to the prison library, just isn't a sufficient response to some crimes.

Turning back to Vick, some posters here have mentioned the presumption of innocence. I agree, and in my first post above said 'if convicted' or words to that effect.

Fizban

Jul 28, 2007, 8:16 AM

Both Scubaman and Yellow Dog make excellent points on this issue. However, since I live in the Hampton Roads area where the dog fighting occurred, I thought I would add my thoughts and perspective.

Needless to say the Michael Vick case has been a focal point with the local media since the Surry County officials searched his house in the early spring for drugs while investigating a drug case against his cousin. The local NBC affiliate’s, WAVY 10, Chopper 10 was overhead that day with investigative reporter Mary Kay Mallonee (who has been the local lead investigative reporter, IMHO). Notice it was the local authorities vice the Federal authorities that initiated the original search. They discovered the dog kennels (and dogs) and dog fighting paraphernalia on the property. What a horrible sight it was! The local authorities subsequently issued another search warrant into the dog fighting activities. Guess what? The Surry County Commonwealth Attorney would not execute it. He said he didn’t like the “language” in the warrant. Sounds fishy to me. Fast-forward six weeks… The Federal authorities step in and execute a warrant for dog fighting which now leads us to the indictment of Michael Vick, et al.

Personally, I do not understand why the local authorities have not or did not pursue the dog fighting case against Michael Vick. The Commonwealth of Virginia has some serious animal cruelty statutes on the book. I remember way back in my Navy days (I spent a few years in the Navy… 30 to be exact) a case that came up while I was stationed in Alameda, California. I worked in the legal field and became involved in an extradition case between Norfolk, Virginia and the Navy. A ship changed homeports between Norfolk to Alameda. There was a sailor aboard the ship who left animals unattended in his apartment in Norfolk while the ship took six months to transit to Alameda. It wasn’t a pretty sight in Norfolk. Norfolk executed an arrest warrant and the Navy returned him to Norfolk to stand trial. He ended up spending six months in jail. This case happened 25 years ago. People still end up today going to jail for cruelty to animals, which again makes me wonder why the Surry County Commonwealth Attorney has chosen not to pursue the case against Michael Vick. And remember… he made his decision before the Federal authorities stepped in.

And now a few words about PETA. I am not a PETA supporter but I am not an antagonist either. They have some good goals but I do not agree with a lot of them nor do I agree with their methods. Their headquarters are also in Norfolk, about 15 miles from my house. While they have been very vocal recently about this case, a few of my friends and I found it odd that they were strangely silent at the beginning of this case. I consider them “publicity hounds” when it comes to animal rights issues, but there wasn’t a peep out of them for the first few months of this case… at least not locally that I recall. But they are involved now and more power to them.

So what is going to happen to Michael Vick now? I think his days as an Atlanta Falcon are over, regardless if he is convicted or acquitted. I don’t think he will play in the NFL this year. A team could take chance and sign him in the future. Scubaman’s suggestion that Oakland might be the team is logical. The Raiders have a penchant for signing players with tarnished reputations. It would be ironic since Vick’s second cousin, Aaron Brookes, played with the Raiders a couple of years ago. Regardless of his NFL future, I believe Vick’s value as a marketing commodity is over. His sponsors are beginning to drop him like flies. It is a shame that his star is tumbling down, but it is his behavior that brought it on. Michael Vick has no one to blame but himself. If the court acquits him, so be it. If they find him guilty, let the punishment be served.

I apologize for the length of my post but I have a lot to say on this issue, even more than I wrote. Animal cruelty is wrong, wrong, wrong!

stillconfused

Jul 28, 2007, 1:14 PM

Electrocute him then bash his head into the ground a few times to make sure the fuckers dead. I have nothing intelligent to say on the subject because the rage has swelled my brain to complete nonfuctionatudeness.

dafydd

Jul 28, 2007, 1:34 PM

stillconfused

Jul 28, 2007, 2:07 PM

hudson9

Jul 28, 2007, 2:07 PM

What basis do you have for saying it's never worked, Michael? It sure kept discipline in the Royal Navy... <snip>...For my part, I don't think it's barbaric to punish; justice often requires it, and justice is the ideal of civilized people. And to call virtually everyone who existed before the 1960's a 'barbarian' is, frankly, not very convincing....

Yes, conditions in the Royal Navy were so good that they had to impress (basically kidnap) people into service. And then there were those inconvenient mutinies... Royal Navy finally did outlaw corporal punishment, and not because it was "working."

(2) Almost 200 years *before* 1960, the U.S. constitution outlawed "cruel and unusual punishment" so, you are right, there were people who were not barbarians before 1960.

(To return to the original thread...) If Vick is guilty on the dog fighting charges, he definitely should do some time. There is no way that should be tolerated.

Jack

Yellow Dog

Jul 28, 2007, 3:04 PM

Fizban! Good for you. Are you referring to the DA Poindexter?

I started following this case is April but it was hard because I stumbled on the Vick case by accident -- then followed up daily with web searches. I don't go to sports forums but that was where most of the information was at the time. I was surprised and pleased that almost universally the sports jocks were apalled by these allegations.

Poindexter said he has had death threats. He said Vick was a "nice guy."
What is wrong with him? What is the concensus of opintion regarding his dragging his feet on this? I think he wanted it to go away. I think he was probably currying favor with this mob. But am quite pleased people felt strongly enough to send him death threats.

Today on the news they said Tony Taylor was going for a plea. Yeah. That's what we like when all these "macho" dog men start to crumble. I think Billy Martin is prolonging the case so emotions will cool down. Granted it is not pleasant to think about these issues daily -- too abhorrent! Hopefully no one will forget or have their feelings diminished over time. I don't think they would put me on a jury.

Maybe this will backfire on Billy Martin and the co-defendants will all cop a plea and leave Vick sitting there with his high priced attorney.

Personally I find Vick scary. I wouldn't want to be alone with him. Is that just the image he is trying to project? Really he doesn't deserve any psychological analysis -- too bad old sparky has been put away.

(Old Sparky is Florida's electric chair). It's not funny but the last time they fired it up it took two trys -- or frys -- if you prefer to do its work.

I don't believe in capital punishment but sometimes it just seem appropriate.

TaylorMade

Jul 28, 2007, 3:14 PM

I don't think this is a capital case. . . While I hate to see an animal abused for no good reason (and dogfighting is NO GOOD REASON), death isn't an appropriate penalty. Hell, the kids in Broward County who beat a homeless man to death isn't even getting that, AFAIK.

Vick is probably guilty and deserves a decade or two of prison time. Death? Sorry to seem Spock-Like here, but I can't see it.

*Taylor*

bhg08054

Jul 28, 2007, 3:24 PM

What are your comments?
After the way the Duke Lacrosse team case played out, I think we all need to be very careful about convicting anyone, for anything, until after the legal system does its thing.

"No person shall be ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ..."

If the man is guilty, delaying has persecution won't minimize it.

If he is innocent, and you persecute him now, there is no way to repay him later.

Yellow Dog

Jul 28, 2007, 3:29 PM

Aw come on. I wasn't trying to be taken literally. It was a figurative comment.

Fizban you are very right about the organization PETA. While the HSUS had information and contact numbers immediately PETA had no information other than on its forum. It was sad -- its members kept asking what to do, who to contact. One the the people on the forum said it was "political." I took that to mean that since Vick had celebrity status they were not going to take him on.

The PETA people are good at publicity stunts. However I too look upon them with a lot of apprehension. Buried there in the back pages was news that PETA people from the Virginia, North Carolina area were arrested for picking up pets for "Adoption" then killing them and throwing their corpses into a dumpster.

Please everybody. PETA is in the news but I think PETA is just a fund raiser for themselves. Don't think that this is PETA. I pesonally am a member of HSUS and give them money, not PETA. I also think they are questionable.
I also give money to Farm Sanctuary and local animal causes. Sorry for the analogy but the PETA people are kinda whores.

Remember when the news commentators say PETA is protesting that is not correct. People like us are protesting.

Yellow Dog

Jul 28, 2007, 3:40 PM

OK. Lets keep on the Michael Vick issue. I apologize for side tracking the commentary.

Fizban

Jul 28, 2007, 3:58 PM

Yellow Dog, I was referring to DA Poindexter. Speculation here is that he knew what was going on at Vick's house and that is why he never moved on it. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I do know he won't talk to some of the local media now. In response to a question by Mary Kay Mallonee after the Federal authorities filed charges again Vick, DA Poindexter defended himself by telling her that it took the Feds six weeks to file charges. He wouldn't answer why he had done nothing in the 12 weeks since the local authorities' search.

Yellow Dog

Jul 28, 2007, 5:06 PM

Update: Nike, Reebok, NFL.com and many others have suspended sales of all Micael Vick sporting goods and sports memorabilia including signed balls, jerseys, etc. Many other companies have joined in this suspension of his goods. Additionally Nike has suspended their payments to him.

dafydd

Jul 28, 2007, 5:14 PM

hey daffy duck, I have sat on two juries. They were minor cases, but I did take it seriously. You can not possibly tell me that this asshole of inhumanity is innocent. Get real, and get a conscience. (that's the ability to choose between right and wrong moron.)

lol that's cute 'daffy duck'.
Don't get hot under the collar. I didn't say I disagreed with you. I actually quite liked the intensity of your post. no need to flame, jane.
but hey-ho.....

d

biwords

Jul 28, 2007, 7:11 PM

Yes, conditions in the Royal Navy were so good that they had to impress (basically kidnap) people into service. And then there were those inconvenient mutinies... Royal Navy finally did outlaw corporal punishment, and not because it was "working."...Almost 200 years *before* 1960, the U.S. constitution outlawed "cruel and unusual punishment" so, you are right, there were people who were not barbarians before 1960. Jack

Actually, the Constitution borrowed the phrase 'cruel and unusual punishment' from the English bill of rights of 1689. Neither in Britain nor in the US was flogging considered 'cruel and unusual punishment' before the post-WW2 period. (The last prison floggings in the U.S. occured in Delaware in 1952, and the practice was abolished there only in 1972).

www.hmsrichmond.org says that flogging was abolished in the British forces in 1881 in response to strong public sentiment (not in response to any evidence that it was ineffective in maintaining discipline). What conditions were like in the Navy and the ethics of press-ganging (aka the draft) are, of course, separate questions.

timepga50

Aug 16, 2007, 1:23 PM

I'm from Atlanta,and I'm a black man. That said, Mike Vick is BEYOND stupid,if he did this,and he should get what he deserves.The very ugly racial overtones the case has taken are what I find the most troubling.I have no trouble with people critizing Vick,He brought that on himself.But Some,and let me repeat some whites seem to using Vick as a metaphor for black people in general.I also have a problem with black people who seem to be in denial about the guy.It looking more and more like Mike Vick is NOT a good person. And to pretend this is not so is in my mind desultional.I do,however, think PETA are just a bunch of media whores.

Diana_TS

Aug 16, 2007, 5:13 PM

I don't like to see humans, or animals mistreated. If guilty Vick should get the maximum allowed by our system of justice.......saying that, justice in our system seems to be, at times, very partial to monied, famous, etc., people. Cases in point......good looking blonde school teacher having sex with a 13 year old boy, gets house arrest wearing a sexy ankle bracelet while a 41 year old male teacher gets jail time for having an affair with a 17 year old female student.....duh what is wrong with this picture. Illegal Immegrant Pedofile gets released on 1500 dollar bond and kills three young black college bound students in New Jersey. OJ, Duke Students, Paris Hilton (the exception to the rule), the sentences for the crimes committed make no sense!!! I predict Vick will get a slap on the hand while his buddies, who are turning on him, will go down for the count. :2cents:

Diana_TS

Aug 16, 2007, 5:15 PM

I don't like to see humans, or animals mistreated. If guilty Vick should get the maximum allowed by our system of justice.......saying that, justice in our system seems to be, at times, very partial to monied, famous, etc., people. Cases in point......good looking blonde school teacher having sex with a 13 year old boy, gets house arrest wearing a sexy ankle bracelet while a 41 year old male teacher gets jail time for having an affair with a 17 year old female student.....duh what is wrong with this picture. Illegal Immigrant Pedofile gets released on 1500 dollar bond and kills three young black college bound students in New Jersey. OJ, Duke Students, Paris Hilton (the exception to the rule), the sentences for the crimes committed make no sense!!! I predict Vick will get a slap on the hand while his buddies, who are turning on him, will go down for the count. :2cents:

Diana_TS

Aug 16, 2007, 5:20 PM

Sorry for the dual post, was trying to edit the original post and screwed up.

I don't like to see humans, or animals mistreated. If guilty Vick should get the maximum allowed by our system of justice.......saying that, justice in our system seems to be, at times, very partial to monied, famous, etc., people. Cases in point......good looking blonde school teacher having sex with a 13 year old boy, gets house arrest wearing a sexy ankle bracelet while a 41 year old male teacher gets jail time for having an affair with a 17 year old female student.....duh what is wrong with this picture. Illegal Immigrant Pedofile gets released on 1500 dollar bond and kills three young black college bound students in New Jersey. OJ, Duke Students, Paris Hilton (the exception to the rule), the sentences for the crimes committed make no sense!!! I predict Vick will get a slap on the hand while his buddies, who are turning on him, will go down for the count. :2cents:

Azrael

Aug 16, 2007, 7:28 PM

Amazing quarterback. Despicable waste of a human shell.
Oh and one more thing...
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
:bigrin:

MarieDelta

Aug 20, 2007, 7:49 PM

Update:
Vick agrees to guilty plea deal, prison possible (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/20/vick/index.html)

Earlier, sources close to the case told CNN that federal prosecutors offered to recommend an 18- to 36-month prison sentence for the suspended star quarterback for his alleged role in the dogfighting operation, but that Vick's attorneys were trying to reduce that to less than a year.

Can you say slap on the wrist?

bi male 2

Aug 21, 2007, 12:56 AM

Just have one thing to say. He copped a plea today. So so much to say about being innocent until proven guilty. He just said today I am guilty of the charges. I just hope that he comes out of prison with a bigger asshole than he went in with.:):):) And if he don't like to suck cock now he will when he gets out of prison:):):)

Reprob8

Aug 21, 2007, 1:34 AM

The thing about this that bothers me is that Vick is the focus of everyones attention, everyday people like this are caught and you may read a small blurb about it on the cnn ticker but then it's gone and most people forget about it and go about their business, maybe the attention that this idiot has brought to the issue will have some type of positive effect for a while at least. That said I hope that Vick loses millions in endorsements and salary, also I am curious to see how his sentence stacks up against not only his co defendants but also against similar cases in that state.

jo69guy

Aug 21, 2007, 6:40 AM

I believe he should loose his career, do hard prison time, and most importantly, be subjected to the things he did to those dogs. Dog fighting is a barbaric, horrible thing, and anyone involved should be strung up by their balls, or ovaries. :2cents:

hillwalker54

Aug 21, 2007, 7:33 AM

There are no words to describe the Mr Vicks actions (alledged or otherwise)! In the animal world they kill for survival and food. The actions described here are that of killing for jollies and getting off, and below that of any living thing! I guess that tells us something of the mentality were dealing with here.

Of course he coped a plea! The evidence is pretty danmning, and now his cohorts workig their deals. I'll garantee his lawyers told him... "Fella you are in a world of shit here! You do not want to take your chances with a jury cause they'll string you up by your balls!.

I'm really restraining myself here so will leave it at that. But i do hope when the hammer swings, it does so hard and finds it's mark!!!

Wishing some peace to the animals that suffered at his expense..

BiGuy87

Aug 21, 2007, 9:26 AM

""What he did is so egregious he will be lucky to get off without someone killing him. My only impression of his supporters is that they are very ignorant and don't read much.""

Humans > Animals

Besides, PLENTY of civilians have participated in dogfighting activities yet a federal charge is very rare.

If he's proven to be guilty, then his punishment is well-deserved, but all of this negativity and publicized attention is unnecessary..

If that joke, PETA, was seriously opposed to dogfighting (they are offering $5,000 to anyone who has information leading to a busted dogfighting ring) then they would publicize other alleged criminals instead of picketing outside of KFC..

Kentucky Fried Cruelty..

Oh, please. I like their coleslaw.

TaylorMade

Aug 21, 2007, 10:16 AM

It's apparent that he won't be getting more than about 18 months, if that. . .so if you want the hammer dropped on the guy. . .don't go to the justice system. After the details are released, the NFL can ban him for a year (that takes effect AFTER he is released) and up to a lifetime . Personally, I think a 2-3 year ban from the NFL is penalty enough. I'm 99% sure his playing days in ATL are over. Arthur Blank won't take him back. Falcons Fans have made it clear they won't come to watch a team with Vick as QB. And other teams probably know they aren't that desperate to take him. THAT'S the true penalty Vick faces - - what the NFL will do to him for what he's done.

*Taylor*

DC_looking

Aug 21, 2007, 12:33 PM

Hold on folks. The bastard plea bargained and admitted guilt. What he did is reprehensible and odious. But he need not die for it. Vick is just another example of an uneducated clown that gets unreasonable amounts of money for doing nothing of intrinsic value. He is, at best, a classic under achiever by any measure. Even football.

Dogs are wonderful but the human race is cruel to animals all the time. We eat them for Christ's sake. We race them. We use them. And, as disgusting as is what Vick did. They guy does not deserve death or some form of corporal punishment. My guess is he'll get 18 months and his football career is Kaput.

Yellow Dog

Aug 28, 2007, 2:25 PM

PETA will not post my opinions. AKC should have monitored this kennel and breeder. Applaud Rosenberg, Whisler and Gill for their actions.

Vick is psychopathological and had no apologies to his dogs who are now thankfully in the hands of ASPCA for evaluation. The USDA scares me though. I have been tireless with this fight. Did he really just get a slap on the wrist? I think so but there is not a conclusion yet.

As for the Commonwealth of Virginia and Gerald Poindexter -- yeah, well he did nothing for a long time and we will see what happens next with them but I am doubtful based on what you have told me took place in the past.

What about Jonathan Babineaux -- pressure needs to be applied to the Falcons against him. He killed his girl friend's dog because the couple was having a fight and she went to the movies. In the meantime he knocked this dog against the wall or with a hammer and killed him. (Kilo) Police have
pressed charges against him but with no conclusion that I can find yet.

Will Vick tell on his compadres? Please don't be negative becuase I cannot stand that right now. Something has been done -- not enough -- but something.

timepga50

Sep 1, 2007, 12:38 AM

What Vick did was cruel and inhumane,but no less inhumane than what Human Beings have done,are doing,and will continue to do to other HUMAN BEINGS every day.Try to keep some perspective.People.

Azrael

Sep 1, 2007, 5:46 AM

Yes, and when human beings do these things, they have to answer to their fellow man, their maker and of course, karma.

scubaman

Sep 1, 2007, 6:58 AM

After reading these posts it is appearant that several individuals are rather upset with this case. I agree he should receive the max allowed by law. Anybody who fights dogs is in need of serious therapy. What I really find distasteful about Vick's plea is; He needs to grow up, he states he is sorry for lying to Mr. Blank, Commissioner Goodall, he is sorry to disapointing his teammates, and the fans. Now the kicker, in all of this I have found God! He is just sorry he got caught and now that he did get caught and has lost so much money, he found religion. To me these are just words of a desperate man who is attempting to say the right words so he will be allowed back in the NFL and a chance at another large contract so he can go deep undercover and repeat the same crimes! I don't think he will stop, he will just be more careful in the future. An to think this all started because a cops drug dog responded to a vehicle in front of the residence which had marijuana in it. Vick is killing dogs and a dog started all of this, can you say justice is served????????