what is so wrong with two guys hugging ? a interesting opinion piece

[Long Duck Dong]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/6786490/Same-sex-education

I spotted this in a site and the author is the daughter of two lesbians so I was curious about her point of view..... and it was .... interesting... she touches on many points but seems to doesn't really take any sides... something that I notice a lot with people that are raised in LGBT friendly households....they have a more open view point ......

what really stood out, was her final remark about how she thought she would be the last person to discriminate against lesbians...... you will need to read the article to see why she makes the remark

[Jobelorocks]

In SoCal growing up and even in adulthood, guys always hugged each other. Everybody hugs everyone at least in all my circles they did and I grew up around evangelical fundementalists. It was really weird to me moving to Ct and guys didn't hug each other and women really didn't even hug unless you knew each other rather well. I weirded people out because I always hug people goodbye first time I meet them and when I get close I kiss them on the cheek as a greeting and farewell. I had to learn how to hold back. It really is a cultural thing and depends on what area you are in.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol I used to hug guys in the christian circle when I was exploring the christian path years ago and it was platonic.. lol... but yes it caused issues cos it was a public display of male *affection *..... it was just a hug....

I have been asked if I do it cos I am bisexual and my answer has always been, no... its cos I can.... and there are times when its nice to know that somebody cares.......

what is interesting is my mother will not hug a person at a funeral.... and yes she is extreme christian and vehemently anti LGBT... where as I would hug my worst enemy if they needed a hug and a shoulder to lean on in a time of need... there is plenty of time for fighting, but when there is a time for compassion then compassion there shall be

[Long Duck Dong]

drugstore, the owner of the club, has lesbian and bisexual strippers and dancers at her two clubs in auckland....and is looking to hire more in wellington at her new club.. so yeah I guess she must be homo / bi phobic and full of discrimination.....

as for the author, as the daughter of two lesbians and a known LGBT friendly person... she must be homo / biphobic too......

tell me, do you call the WBC LGBT friendly?????

[tenni]

"Yet, no woman I know has ever confessed to being aroused by the image of two men getting it on."

I've read and been told by bisexual men that their wife/partner is sexually aroused by them telling of their sex acts with other men. As far as "the image" well men are sexually aroused by a visual image than women is a traditionally held belief. Increasingly some women are admitting to being aroused visually as well. Some women like to be present when their male partner is having m2m sex. Some report being aroused watching their husband /partner having sex with a guy.

"Is it innate, their disgust? Is it the cut and the thrust of it? Grace of the fact that physiologically a sexual act between men, at least as most heterosexuals imagine it to be, is more intrusive than the gentler strokes and softer curves of two females."

Here we have a self indentified hetero woman stating what she thinks happens between two men sexually. She also places herself to determine what hetero men find disgusting about m2m sex. Some times the "intrusive" (penetration?) may be aggressive but it would be wrong to think that two men making love never use gentle strokes. Is she being biphobic or homophobic or both by assuming that m2m sex is never gentle? Men or women may be aggressive sexually....It is expected more so from men and regardless of the gender of a partner it happens. Yes men can be aggressive sexually regardless of the gender of their partner. It is hetero men's disgust that makes them not want to be associated with same sex between men that they won't hug. It is a self homo or biphobia. It is men associating touch with sex rather than also a reassuring and caring physical interaction between two people.

I don't really understand the connection between the first part about men and their discomfort of touch with another man and the comments about lesbians enjoy watching female strippers? The lesbians are acting like men who are sexually aroused by visual images.

I agree that she doesn't take a side. It comes across as a near pointless article. It is not a very good article imo.

As far as women being bi phobic about m2m sex, yes this happens with hetero women and bisexual women. It has been reported here several times. Some women do not accept men having sex with each other for a variety of reasons. They are biphobic.

Personally, I do hug some male friends rarely publicly but am more inclined to use a more subtle touch on the shoulder. I did it this week when a guy was apologizing for why he had not responded to my emails. I know that his mother is dying and I wanted to assure him that I accepted and understood that he had more important things to deal with. As he apologized to me while I was sitting and he knelt down to be at my level, I put my hand on the back of his shoulder in a crowded room. I don't know him that well but he is a great person. I do not feel comfortable hugging him because I don't want to offend him if he might see it as sexual. Men might hit/punch another male to show non sexual affection rather than hug.

Men do touch other men at times and even what might be seen as sexually inappropriate under different circumstances. A football player smacking another man's arse if the guy makes a good play. There are "guy rules" for male to male physical contact and more boundaries about this than women to women contact. These may be different in different cultures as she writes.

Hugging a woman in a non sexual way is done as well. I usually ask or verbally offer a hug rather than just go for it if I don't mean it sexually. Funny, but I don't ask a guy for permission to hug him. Then I don't hug another man that often publicly and non sexually.

[Jobelorocks]

Tenni- I know I like seeing two men together and my group of friends back in Cali were all straight and admitted to liking seeing guys together as well. I know plenty of women are "disgusted" by seeing or thinking about men together, but there are those of us who like it.

[darkeyes]

Nothing at all is the answer..and in the UK at least, it is apparently on the increase.. something about which I posted some time ago..

[Gearbox]

Basically the author is saying "Oh two men holding hands! You don't see that often! So it's weird!".:bigrin:
Then she rambles on about sex, strippers, homophobes etc for no apparent reason.lol

As Jobelorocks says, it's a cultural thing. If she saw men holding hands regularly, it wouldn't be weird! It would be weird not to!
If the author really wanted fun with the cultural boundaries of hetero men, she could use a simple pink frilly umbrella. I 100% guarantee results!lol Even in torrential rain, they all REFUSE to use such an illegal tool. It's not just an umbrella, it's an assault on their identity. An indirect one, that has to do with everybody else's perception of them, and leaves them with an insecurity that they don't usually have to deal with.
Yes I've used my daughters Barbie Brolly and offered it around.:rolleyes: Next step, get a bloke to hold hands with me.lol

[tenni]

Yes it is a cultural thing. I've traveled to countries where hetero men hold hands are are openly affectionate even in public. The author does however have lots of biphobia and homophobia. This can be seen in hetero people who claim that they are all for the rights and equality of bisexual and gay men, yet when they see two men kiss or hold hands they say "OMG Ewwwwwwwww!" or "That's gross!".

I am not getting any indication in the article to state specifically that the author is homophobic and certainly no reference to bisexuality so I don't perceive any biphobia? Do you mean that because she writes about and felt odd about her husband holding hands with a man for balance that makes her homophobic? Wouldn't that just be unusual behaviour in a North American culture versus a country where men holding hands /arms is a norm having nothing to do with their sexuality(I think?). I've seen men in Perugia Italy holding arms as the walk in the evening. It is a regional tradition for men to do this nightly in the old city. It isn't where I live. It initially felt odd to me to see this but it was ok...after all bisexual here...;)

Although, I can see your point about people who may say that they are for equality of bisexual and gay men but may react in disgust to seeing two men kiss. I don't read anything in the article to tell me either way about the writer?

Will you clarify what words in the article give you this idea or maybe you are discussing homophobia and biphobia in general in society?

[elian]

It frustrates me that there AREN'T more male public displays of affection - not full out "snogging" as Fran would say but a simple hug or hand holding - I would LOVE to see more of that because i would like to think that means we're a little less schizophrenic about showing that we have feelings. What is the alternative? For someone to feel so angry and disconnected that they bring semi-automatic weapons to a public place and show just how hurt they really are?

People NEED other people, we need a sense of connection with others. As an only child sometimes it is very hard for me to deal with but I just CAN'T do it all myself..