Newly out, and first experience with biphobia

[Fredd Lee]

Hi, everyone.

First, I am very happy that I have found this site! So excited.

I am recently identified and out bisexual girl(despite the name).

I first became sure enough to come out only a several months ago.

I came out to my new friends that I met in NYC, even though I haven't known them for too long(maybe that made it easier).

Most of them were frim Europe and all of them were more or less open-minded, so I wasn't worried. Also, I had no shame about who I was.

I've moved to Vancouver recently to start a new school.

I have idetified myself as bisexual to my classmates(there are only 29), as soon as I got the chance. This one guy told everyone he was gay and I causally mentioned I was bisexual. Nobody seemed to have problem with it. Frankly I didn't expect any.

Today, I had this 'talk' with two of my closest friends in class. One girl said lesbians are women who were abused by men in some way.

And there was this guy, who I initially liked very much, and it seemed as if he liked me too. I am of course talking purely in friendship. He said homosexuals are born that way, but bisexuals are either straight or gay, but just really really horny.

I do tend to make a lot of sexual jokes and innuendos, but that's because I like to make silly and slightly culturally incorrect jokes. I guess he assumed I am horny.

He said everything in world is divided in two, and if you are one thing you cannot be the other. He said it's not even an argument, it's just the way it is, the truth.

I started to argue that binary and duality are human perception and consturcts and does not equal the truth. The class resumed and I had to go back to my seat.

I didn't bring it up again later because I don't normally like to stir up fights. I will have to work with him in group for next year or so. He is usually very nice to me and helps with my works whenver he can, as I do him.

It astonished me because he is seemingly liberal and open minded.

He is open minded about homosexuality, as well.

He also has a close friend who I am sure is bisexual. As far as I know he enjoys sex with both women and men.

After this incident I remembered how he described his said friend at first. He said 'he's not gay, he just enjoys gay sex'. He didn't say the word bisexual. I assumed he was being funny and laughed and said that made no sense, he mumbles 'I guess he's bisexual or something like that I guess'.

I didn't think much of it at the time, but now I understand the significance.



This was an extremely upsetting experience, not only because it was my first direct encounter with biphobia and it was from a friend, but also because(mostly because), it came from someone who is open-minded about homosexuality.


I agonized over my sexual identity for years. It started at the start of my puberty, arounf age 11 or 12. I come from a very conservative community so I couldn't talk to anyone about it.

For past 3 or 4 years, I agonized over and over about my seuxality onece again, this time more serious. This was an amazing personal struggle for me.

On top of it, I had to endure racism and (especially)sexism and other forms or prejudice all my life, something I assume he knows little about as a middle-class, heterosexual, white male.

I am a geek, dork, feminist, and a knowledge junky. I have pretty extensive knowledge on anthropology, sociology, psychology, biology(esp. neuroscience), philosophy, and of course gender and queer study. I doubt he knows so much on last two issues especially.

I firmly believe that binary way of thinking like his is one of the gretest sources of prejudice and injustice. (Please, pardon my preachy tone, I don't mean to be, it is just the way I talk).

I just want to know where he gets the audacity to tell me what I am or what I am not.


My confidence in my identity is very very shaken up now.

I only hope that when I build it up again it will be even stronger.




This experience also made me realize that it was much harder to find support and resource on bisexuality compare to greater LGBT community.

I have alwasy been fiercely involved in feminism, anti-racism, and LGBT issues. But before I identified myself as bisexual, it hadn't occured to me to think about issues that are pertaining to almost exclusively bisexuality.




Anyway, that is basically why I sought this site out and think this site is "god-send".

I hope to meet many good people here.

(If you can stand the way I talk lol, sorry I am longwinded).

[Katja]

Hello Fredd and welcome. I am quite new myself to the site. I am unsure quite whether it is for me or not, but so far the few people I have spoken to in chat have been very nice. I think I am using it as a release from the frustrations of everyday life and a refuge from the suspicions of the world around us of people like ourselves.

For years I struggled with my sexuality and religion and family history made it difficult for me to accept completely what I am. Many who do not have the internal struggle which we have had to go through cannot comprehend just how difficult it is being attracted to both genders. I include in this number many gay people for they appear to be as blinkered and intolerant of us as those in the heterosexual world who hate anything they consider 'queer'.

Because of my own insecurities and the internal strife my upbringing brought me, I made decisions which still affect my like even today. I may now have accepted what I am, but the ramifications of my actions go beyond the biphobia of the outside world. Because of the world's phobia of bisexuality, I stole what physical experience of my own gender I could and discovery of this lost me husband and family and some friends. That I was dishonest during my married life is not in question, and even before, but that is what phobia of any kind does for us. It pushes us into a corner, creates much unhappiness and we seek out covertly, conciously or unconciously, those like ourselves. We either act upon or suppress that which is deeply inside of us and we hide our face from the world.

Last night I had my second date with a woman who was supremely confident in her sexuality. The first date went swimmingly and from a single evening it stretched into an entire weekend. It was her self belief and confidence which made it happen and none of my doing except from the point of view of weakness born out of a historical insecurity within me and my desperation to explore the side of me with which for too long I have struggled and have never nurtured wholeheartedly. I am not long home for once again my need and my desperation to be me allied to her absolute belief in herself as a sexual being kept me with her. No thats not right. Her belief in herself as a complete human being.

I don't know where this relationship will lead. Nowhere more than likely except as fun and an experience from which we both shall learn and take much. It is not that she is predatory, although she is certainly that. It is that she is herself and afraid of nothing the world of homophobia or biphobia will throw at her. I agreed to this second date knowing what she was like and accepted it, eyes open. I have no regrets because I would love to think that in time I can be just like her. Not as predatory possibly but confident in who I am.

Over breakfast this morning she told me she had never personally experienced biphobia or homophobia aimed at her. She accepted it existed, but that no one had ever questioned her right to be herself, at least never to her face. Her belief is that we draw other's phobias upon ourselves by trying to justify what we are, and continually questioning our rights to be what we are, instead of going out every day and just being what our nature and personalities tell us. Phobia is drawn upon us because we do not believe in ourselves. Do heterosexuals go around justifying their sexuality? No they don't and therefore neither should any of us.

I am not sure I accept her reasoning entirely but it has given me food for thought.

[Realist]

Welcome, Fredd

You have found a remarkable site with, many wonderful, intelligent members. As with the rest of the world, there are some fantastic, loving, caring folks and there are a few detractors, argumentative, and trollish folks, too.

As an older bisexual man, I can tell you that no matter the roadblocks you run into today, things have gotten better. (In some places it still bad, but overall things are better)

I wish you the best of luck and, above all, love.

[matutum]

Hi, everyone.

First, I am very happy that I have found this site! So excited.

I am recently identified and out bisexual girl(despite the name).

I first became sure enough to come out only a several months ago.

I came out to my new friends that I met in NYC, even though I haven't known them for too long(maybe that made it easier).

Most of them were frim Europe and all of them were more or less open-minded, so I wasn't worried. Also, I had no shame about who I was.

I've moved to Vancouver recently to start a new school.

I have idetified myself as bisexual to my classmates(there are only 29), as soon as I got the chance. This one guy told everyone he was gay and I causally mentioned I was bisexual. Nobody seemed to have problem with it. Frankly I didn't expect any.

Today, I had this 'talk' with two of my closest friends in class. One girl said lesbians are women who were abused by men in some way.

And there was this guy, who I initially liked very much, and it seemed as if he liked me too. I am of course talking purely in friendship. He said homosexuals are born that way, but bisexuals are either straight or gay, but just really really horny.

I do tend to make a lot of sexual jokes and innuendos, but that's because I like to make silly and slightly culturally incorrect jokes. I guess he assumed I am horny.

He said everything in world is divided in two, and if you are one thing you cannot be the other. He said it's not even an argument, it's just the way it is, the truth.

I started to argue that binary and duality are human perception and consturcts and does not equal the truth. The class resumed and I had to go back to my seat.

I didn't bring it up again later because I don't normally like to stir up fights. I will have to work with him in group for next year or so. He is usually very nice to me and helps with my works whenver he can, as I do him.

It astonished me because he is seemingly liberal and open minded.

He is open minded about homosexuality, as well.

He also has a close friend who I am sure is bisexual. As far as I know he enjoys sex with both women and men.

After this incident I remembered how he described his said friend at first. He said 'he's not gay, he just enjoys gay sex'. He didn't say the word bisexual. I assumed he was being funny and laughed and said that made no sense, he mumbles 'I guess he's bisexual or something like that I guess'.

I didn't think much of it at the time, but now I understand the significance.



This was an extremely upsetting experience, not only because it was my first direct encounter with biphobia and it was from a friend, but also because(mostly because), it came from someone who is open-minded about homosexuality.


I agonized over my sexual identity for years. It started at the start of my puberty, arounf age 11 or 12. I come from a very conservative community so I couldn't talk to anyone about it.

For past 3 or 4 years, I agonized over and over about my seuxality onece again, this time more serious. This was an amazing personal struggle for me.

On top of it, I had to endure racism and (especially)sexism and other forms or prejudice all my life, something I assume he knows little about as a middle-class, heterosexual, white male.

I am a geek, dork, feminist, and a knowledge junky. I have pretty extensive knowledge on anthropology, sociology, psychology, biology(esp. neuroscience), philosophy, and of course gender and queer study. I doubt he knows so much on last two issues especially.

I firmly believe that binary way of thinking like his is one of the gretest sources of prejudice and injustice. (Please, pardon my preachy tone, I don't mean to be, it is just the way I talk).

I just want to know where he gets the audacity to tell me what I am or what I am not.


My confidence in my identity is very very shaken up now.

I only hope that when I build it up again it will be even stronger.




This experience also made me realize that it was much harder to find support and resource on bisexuality compare to greater LGBT community.

I have alwasy been fiercely involved in feminism, anti-racism, and LGBT issues. But before I identified myself as bisexual, it hadn't occured to me to think about issues that are pertaining to almost exclusively bisexuality.




Anyway, that is basically why I sought this site out and think this site is "god-send".

I hope to meet many good people here.

(If you can stand the way I talk lol, sorry I am longwinded).

if being a liberal is open minded then i'll eat my hat,just enjoy your feelings and it is not important to tell everyone that ur bi..we will like u on your own merits

[Darkside2009]

If you live according to the dictates of your conscience, then other people's opinions will not be of any concern to you.

Welcome to the asylum. :)

[Fredd Lee]

Her belief is that we draw other's phobias upon ourselves by trying to justify what we are, and continually questioning our rights to be what we are, instead of going out every day and just being what our nature and personalities tell us. Phobia is drawn upon us because we do not believe in ourselves. Do heterosexuals go around justifying their sexuality? No they don't and therefore neither should any of us.

I am not sure I accept her reasoning entirely but it has given me food for thought.

I guess she maybe right to a degree.

I was brought up facing almost no racism(actually some elders in my family actually believe that my ethnicity is intellectually superior).

I've only experience racism once I started high school. It was mostly silly high school stuff.

On the other hand I grew up with lots of sexism. I was told that women are in some ways inferior to men and therefore must obey and be submissive to them. I was told women are irration and illogical, and that male psyche has more value than female, that females should only act in certain ways.


When somebody is racist towards me it rolls right off my skin and doesn't even bother me. More often it amuses me. (I am more angered by racism towards blacks and than my own race or ethnicity).

When I am faced with sexism, it is a struggle every single time. It angers me and upsets me. All too often it shakes my confidence.


And I guess that's why I wasn't too upset by the girl saying lesbians are abused women - because I know it is not true, wheres I guess I still have some insecurities about my bisexuality.


I am still learning for the most part, about bisexuality and myself.

Anyway, thank you for the kind words. :)

[darkeyes]

I am still learning for the most part, about bisexuality and myself.



Hun.. the day we stop learnin eitha 'bout oursels or our sexuality is the day they nail us down...:)

[elian]

Hi Fredd, it wouldn't be the first time that I've said or thought something at 20 years old that with wisdom at 30 realized just how immature my thinking was. I hope you will give your friend the benefit of the doubt.

Being that the human mind functions more or less as a neural network it is quite logical to WANT to believe that everything we encounter needs to be classified into categories. At first this probably helped us ("Oh look a spider, danger, run") but every once in a while it really doesn't work very well. People get overwhelmed with information and are quick to judge. People stop listening to the neighbors in their communities and adopt a polarizing "if you're not for us, you must be against.." mentality.

Although our perception may be "black or white" - If you look very carefully at nature things are actually black, white and many different shades of gray.

For some strange reason I thought there must've been something wrong with me, until I started reading the posts on this site and realized that there is a whole continuum of gender identity, sexual and romantic desire.

To quote Evangelical Lutheran Reverend Dr Laurence Keene, "There’s nothing wrong with a fifth grade understanding of God, as long as you’re in the fifth grade," I think the same can be said for sex, but I bet there are many people in America who would still disagree - at least on the surface.

-E

[elian]

Not sure I cited that quote correctly, it was from the movie, "For the Bible Tells Me So"

[BiBedBud]

Dear Fredd Lee,

I’d like to offer this incontrovertible truth to put your “first experience with biphobia” into its proper context…

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

For the life of me; I don’t understand why you or anyone would want to internalize the opinions one finds that are hostile to one’s own worldview. Reflect on them, if you must; but don’t take them to heart if they cause you such angst.

Neither do I understand the need of some people to counter or even convert those in disagreement with them, to make others think the way we do ourselves. This is a form of ideological fascism, and IMHO, life is way too short for that. If you feel the need to educate others, then do so by setting an example, and give instruction only when necessary or invited to do so. Offering argument is only good for creating arguments, which is how people’s opinions are hardened.

In brief: Don’t worry so much what others think of you. Learn to live with disapproval, and you’ll learn to live.


Lastly, from Polonius’s last piece of advice to his son Laertes, in Shakespeare’s ‘Hamlet’ (Act 1, scene 3, line 78)

This above all: to thine own self, be true…

[BiBedBud]

^^^ Fredd Lee, there's a couple of things I'd like to add to my post above.

If you absolutely feel the need to change the way someone thinks, I've often found that the best way to do that is by asking them a question that they cannot answer with their current lines of thinking. This is what Socrates did: He asked questions that laid bare the deficiencies in other's thoughts, leading them to think better themselves, and arrive at their own understanding of the truth.

For goodness sake, don't let others push you off your own center, unless they can legitimately challenge your own thinking, in which case, they'll be doing you a favour.

Also, you've got to come to terms with the fact that "It takes all kinds to make a world". This means we must be tollerant of a certain percentage of idiots roaming the world, among us.

If the idiot in question is an employer or a landlord, then there are laws that protect us from their idiocy. For every other kind of idiot, we've all got to learn to "live and let live". :2cents:

[Maggot]

Well. I'm with Katja's friend on this one. I am myself. No explanation or justification given. As I am frequently introduced to others by friends. "This is Maggot, if you don't like her, tough luck!"

If someone has a problem with my sexuality, then it is their problem, not mine.

BiBedBud has a fair point, why get wound up over a generalisation. Assuming that bisexuals are just horny, is like assuming that white college boys have always had life easy.

As for the I am right and you are wrong argument - Sounds like just about every group of students I have ever encountered. You're all young, opinionated and intolerant of each other - nothing new there. Grief, I remember when my sister was at college, she drove my parents to distraction - she had a tendency to get louder, and louder and start screeching if people disagreed with her opinion.

On a brighter note, keep talking to each other, as others have said above, educate by example. Your friends probably haven't met many, if any people who openly identify as being bisexual. They only have the commentary and experience (or lack thereof) of others to go by. Lots of young men don't identify as being bisexual, preferring to say they are straight, but enjoy gay sex occasionally. As you yourself have found, not everyone welcomes you with open arms when you say "I am bisexual".

[bizel]

hi fredd, firstly i would be selective about who i tell private stuff to - whatever it is. i tend to keep private intimate stuff for people who are tried and tested friends. and sometimes the way we deliver information can come across as confrontational, if the other person is lacking confidence. have learnt the hard way over the years that people's reactions can not be second guessed. when hubby came out as bi, i finally told my sister in secret, to be amazed that she was revolted and wanted nothing to do with him - never would have expected this reaction from her and was shocked. my sister and i have a relationship where we would do anything for each other, but she can't handle this. some people are like that. life is black and white, there is no grey. i find there are so many shades of grey, i get exhausted considering them all. and of course, everyone's reaction is due to their life experience, so you never know which way it will go. they react and we take it personally.that's our mistake. their reactions are not our problem. how they see and deal with the world is their problem. you've got enough to deal with without trying teach the world how to see without blinkers. you can never win if you look at it as an attack on you - it will just exhaust you and wear you out. be like gandhi, and be the change you want to see. live your life the way you are happiest with and become quietly confident within yourself and let them have their opinions. they are entitled, whether you agree with them or not. hug, b.